My name is Theenie Smith. For those who don't know my affiliation with the club, I am Walter Smith's wife. Walter has worked at Turkey Creek since 1994 with the exception of the 3 years he spent as General Manager of another local club. I have been involved in the accounting of TCGCC since 2006. The day to day bookkeeping was performed by an employee of the club and my responsibility was completing month end accounting tasks, preparing periodic miscellaneous tax returns, and working closely with the CPA to file the federal income tax return.
This blog has been created as an informal way for supporters of Turkey Creek Golf and Country Club to communicate with each other and share ideas that will be constructive to the future of the club and the neighborhood. There is much information floating around that is simply not true.I will try to answer questions that are fact finding questions. Comments of personal attacks on any owner's, employees or former members of TCGCC will not be published.
The current owner's can't reopen the club. The emails that were sent last week were an effort to see if there would be a group of people interested in forming an entity that would either buy or lease the property and reopen it. The responses that were received were mostly from people who are interested in seeing the club reopen but I think there was a misunderstanding that the current ownership would be involved. The current ownership wants to lease or sell the property to a new entity whether it be one person or a group of people and the emails and scheduled meeting pertaining to this was for the purpose to put those people in a forum to discuss that possibility. Among the questions asked were those asking about business plans and personnel of which the the current owners would have no input or decision making capabilities. The golf course is for sale and the asking price is the balance of the two Alarion mortgages which is approximately $2.4 million dollars. The suggestion of at least 20 people contributing at least $1000 each month was just that, a suggestion. A new entity could be owned by all the members as are other equity clubs. There are also clubs that offer both equity and non-equity memberships. The variables of ownership are too great to list even if I could think of all of them.
I personally believe that in order for the club to survive, it will have to have the support of the neighborhood. I don't believe that this support can, or that it necessarily should, come in the form of mandatory assessments of the homeowners. This support should be voluntary and can come in many different forms. Membership is the best way to support a club but not the only way, there are clubs within the club that can be supported, eating in the restaurants or ordering takeout is a good way to support the club, playing golf occasionally, steering a charitable organization or club that you may be affiliated with to the golf course for a fund raising tournament or forming a special project group or committee that would choose a project, organize funding and/or labor to complete the project would not only benefit the club but the neighborhood.
I know that people are sick of hearing the catch-22 analogy but that is the situation we have here. There has been 7 different groups, including the original developer, take a stab of making this club a viable business and all of them failed. Without financial stability, improvements to the amenities can't be made and without improvements to the amenities, financial stability can't be acquired. I believe with all of my heart that the next owners of this club can be successful if they have the support of the neighborhood and if they will hold themselves accountable to their supporters.
My hope is that this club reopens soon. Please participate in this blog if you have that wish also.
Thanks for setting this blog up! I think this will be a constructive way for people to communicate rather than just wondering (as we all have been) about what the heck is going on! I think I'm like a lot of people in the neighborhood. I bought in Turkey Creek a few years ago mostly due to the amenities that I fell in love with while visiting the neighborhood and golf course before buying here. Now it is just a depressing broken place with everything shut down. I feel frustrated because I don't really know what I can do to help get the course and pool opened back up! Like many people the last few years have been extremely hard for me financially. I'm a small business owner and single father and that just doesn't leave much time or money for golfing. So I did what I could to support the club which for me was an associate membership and bringing friends out to golf and eat and swim as much as possible. I know it's not much, but it is support. I'm sure like many residents, I wish I had the financial resources to contribute more, even invest in some greater way, but it is absolutely impossible. So what do we do to help get Turkey Creek back??? In the initial posting you said that a group of 20 people contributing $1000 per month could be owners and may be enough to reopen. Why not then 200 contributing $100 per month?? Or 400 contributing $50 per month? It seems to me that this is VERY reasonable and imminently doable!!
ReplyDeleteOn a personal note, why can't the pool be open while we decide the fate of the golf course? This is ridiculous! It was being leased out for many years anyway??? Why not at least allow that to be open? We're just punishing the kids at this point. It seems senseless.
Thanks again for providing this forum, and I hope it becomes a constructive venue for residents to communicate.
Sincerely,
Jordan "Gooch" Gross
I thought from the 20 x $1,ooo email that there was a management group to lead the 20. Apparently that is not the case. Your post indicates the current ownership would not be involved yet the last email indicates the meeting is postponed because a principal is not available for the meeting.
ReplyDeleteI would consider being on of the 20, but credentialed golf course business leadership is necessary
Bob Franks
I want to make it clear to the former members and supporters of the club that your support did not go unnoticed. We appreciated every dollar that was spent at the club. The suggestion of a new group of at least 20 people contributing at least $1000 per month was to purchase the property. The need would still be there for members to pay dues and use the facilities to cover the operating expenses. I hope that everyone understands that the purpose of the pool being closed is not to punish anyone. The fact that it was leased out in the past does not change the fact that the insurance, payroll, sales taxes, liquor license, and other related business activities depended on the entire club being opened. Of course some things can and were seperated but seperation did not allow the pool to be operated as a seperate entity.
ReplyDeleteI did not mean to insinuate that the current owners would not want to be involved at all. We are willing to steer new owners to the people we think are qualified and offer any help the new owners need or may want from us. I only meant to make it clear that the new group would be just that a new group, making their own decisions based on the experience they have or advise they seek from people they feel are qualified to give it. I guess I was just trying too hard to express that the current owners don't expect anything from the new owners.
ReplyDeleteBoth Bunny and I really want to see the club continue and are willing to work with a group to make it happen. I don't know about the $100/month but we can help with a modest sum. Unfortunately today' meeting was canceled. I,Bob,will be away for one week beginning next Tuesday and we will then be concentrating on packing up for our summer in NC. I/we do want to stay involved but don't know how we can help from long distance.
ReplyDeleteI had hoped that,after the last meeting involving John Reger, there would be some follow up action with all of those that attended. I wrote to John to ask if there would be any fruther activity. He responded that there had been no further contact from the current owners. He stated he was willing to work with any group that wanted to pursue further action. Who must be available before Tuesday's meeting can be recheduled?
Bob Blood
RE: Bob Blood Post
ReplyDeleteThe meeting for May 3rd was postponed because John Reger could not be in attendance. I don’t want to speak for John, (John pardon me if you are reading this) and there have been no further discussions with John about the current owners reopening the club but John has also made it clear to Walter and I that he would welcome the opportunity to be involved with reopening the club when new owners are in place. I hope that there will be enough people willing to join the club or support it in whatever manner is possible for them when and if it reopens and that they will express their willingness on this blog as you have.
RE: Anonymous Posts
ReplyDeleteThis is my first attempt at moderating a blog. Please be patient with me. You may post a comment as anonymous and I will publish is if you sign your name.
Many members and residents are indicating that they are not receiving the e-mails from Turkey Creek Golf & CC...you have not been dropped from our list. Your SPAM is most likely blocking these e-mails. Here is what you should do: put the following e-mail addresses in your personal e-mail address book:
ReplyDeleteinfo@turkeycreekcc.com
info@plantationoaksgolf.com
w.smith@pga.com
By adding these email addresses to your personal address book, your email is more likely to recognize our emails as "safe senders".
I just wanted to thank Walter and Theenie for offering to post the facts and to set the record straight. Your efforts are appreciated by the community!
ReplyDeleteSome of us as homeowners do not have the amount of capital to be an investor, but are willing to support in the ways/means we can.
Maybe someone could poll the community to see what level of commitment each person is willing to provide? (Much like a foundation has tiered levels of support.) Not sure whether this makes more sense before or after investors consider the property. Perhaps potential investors will be interested in community data like this? SurveyMonkey might be an appropriate tool.??
~Kimberly Sims
Thanks very much, Theenie, for putting up this blog so that we can communicate and have some idea about what's going on. In that regard, I am confused about a few things:
ReplyDelete1. The first email said someone was looking for 20 people to contribute $1,000 per month for up to 12 months. I don't see how $240,000 is enough to buy or lease the club plus operate the club, much less make the mortgage payments. Some major repairs and renovations are also needed.
2. The meeting to get things started was postponed with no new date set. Is John Reger organizing this effort? If so, why doesn't he put together a group to do it. If not, why do we have to wait for him to be present? If his schedule is so cluttered, how could he actively participate on a regular basis?
3. Closure has already been too long. Some members are thinking about going to other clubs, and, if they do, they probably won't return, even if the course is reopened. The longer the closure, the smaller the chance the club can be reopened, in my opinion.
4. Whoever puts together an effort to reopen should be willing to accept all contributions; they should not be limited to $1,000 / month for 12 months, as was implied by the first email. As someone else said, a number of people contributing $50 or $100 / month can add up to a substantial sum. I'm personally not interested in ownership, but I would be willing to contribute a smaller amount.
5. Part of the job of leadership is to get the community involved. This involves, in many cases, personal contacts, along with attractive non-golf facilities for community members to use. It also involves attracting business and corporate memberships, with facilities for business meetings.
Admittedly, various ownership groups have experienced problems in making this club work. Maybe it's a mission impossible. However, Alachua is a growing community, and I believe the club could be successful with good leadership, community involvement, and hard work. People (even non-owners) have to feel that the club is their baby, and they have a stake in making it work. Accountability and transparency will be required.
Thanks, Hal Smith
RE: Kimberly Sims
ReplyDeleteThanks for your support. I will check on that survey software right away. I think that a potential investor would be happy for this kind of information. My only reservation with doing this without a new group or owner in place is that people might answer in a way they think would be beneficial to reopening the club instead of how they would really support it if it were open. I don’t mean to sound negative and I am not assuming that people would intentionally lie but it’s real easy to say (and mean it at the time) one thing then do another when the time comes. I had membership packets ready and waiting at the March 31st meeting and then we decided not to present them. The problem with throwing out membership categories and prices is that you really don’t know how much you need to get from each individual membership without knowing how many members you are going to have.
RE: Hal Smith post
ReplyDeleteThe first email that suggested at least 20 people contributing at least $1000 per month was an estimate of the amount of money it would take to cover the mortgage payments if the business didn’t perform any better for the first year than it did in 2010. The major renovations and repairs needed would hopefully come from memberships, daily sales and the capital improvement fund if one is established.
The reason John could not be here for a meeting on May 3rd was because of a family issue he had to attend to. I think if this were to become one of his projects it would be very high on his priority list. John has not been promised any sort of contract and what he has done up to this point has been more of a favor to his friend Walter than anything. John is not organizing this particular effort but he is willing to work for a group if the group is organized. I know that it sounds like which comes first the chicken or the egg. I guess John would not have to be present in order for the meeting to take place but I have to be honest, the current owners especially Walter and Wallace are a little apprehensive about conducting a meeting like this without someone with John’s expertise to facilitate it.
I whole heartedly agree with you about the closure being too long. We are doing everything we can do see it reopen. The current owners simply cannot reopen it. The necessary funds are not available and the reality is I am not sure we could regain the trust it would require from the members in order for anything to change.
It would not matter if there were 4 people willing to contribute $5000 per month or 400 people contributing $50 per month, the total amount $240K is simply what we predict it would take to keep the doors open and give new owners the opportunity to improve the facilities and grow the business to the point it could support itself. This would be a commitment of investment and may not stop at 12 months. Investors may have to continue contributing some amount monthly until the mortgages are satisfied. I am sure that new investors would welcome any contributions that are voluntarily made. Unfortunately the word voluntary is the key. There would be no real commitment therefore no guarantee that the new investors would not find themselves in the same situation as the current owners if the donors stopped contributing.
I agree also that the key to the success of the next owner(s) will be transparency and accountability. The current owners have been more transparent than many people think. Some of the rumors I have heard make it seem like there was a lot of secrecy and even dishonesty. The rumors I have heard, and I am sure I have not heard them all, are not true and I hope that people will use this blog to ask questions to clear up any uncertainties they may have. I will do everything in my power to answer them openly and honestly.
I too want to thank you for opening up this blog and I have been checking it frequently for the latest developments, comment, and answers. I truly appreciate your honesty. As, with many others, I am disappointed of the course closure (along with the other amenities) that has unfortunately been a trend throughout the country. I absolutely love TC for its feeling of peace and safety (I even got a friend to buy a house here). For me, a graduate student with a year left till graduation with a wife and two young girls, I had bought a little place on the golf course 6 years ago and although I’ve been in this place for longer than anticipated (home values and financial woes-like most everyone) I felt it had great rental value in the future to snowbirds or the professional student who is a golf nut. We even considered upgrading to a bigger house here in TC. And, I love to golf (can’t yet play much and am terrible) and in particular this golf course has an outstanding set up. That has all changed at least for now.
ReplyDeleteAlso I have tried with my limited abilities to support the club though the Tiki Bar, playing rounds when I can, hitting the range, taking lessons, and even buying a pool membership years back. I am willing to continue this trend with a stronger contribution upon graduation. But I have a few points first (all have a similar theme):
1) A Gainesville sun article reported the average club has about 25% of their community’s active members of a given club. Ours was around 20% (correct me if I’m wrong). I know we can do better and I agree with Hal that allowing the community to feel as if the club is an extension of itself will do wonders to membership in one form or another. A lot of people doing a little can add to great dividends.
2)This kind of relates to number 1 but during the last 6 years I have yet to receive one marketing item via mail, email, or phone trying to communicate opportunities (possibly incentives) for the club. Now, I don’t know the marketing strategy for the last owners (or maybe I wasn’t on the list), but I implore the new owners (if that happens) to get creative with community involvement and community promotions. However, I do applaud the idea from the last group for opening the tiki bar, having the foursome special that I took advantage of (and always brought nonmembers), and the free Saturday clinic with Walter years back that my wife and I enjoyed and encourage the continuation of those with additional marketing.
3)Last point I want to make is that another article I read, one of owners blamed us for not buying more memberships. While partially true, when the only communication is a letter for a struggling student that I needed to join or face essentially expulsion from ever obtaining memberships is just wrong. Although I understand the reasoning behind it (I know other clubs have tried this tactic) it left me with a bad taste in my mouth especially since there was nothing at this stage in my life I could do about it.
4)Okay, one more while I’m creating this novel. I am no business man, but is the business worth the 2.4 million dollars? I understand the property value (from Gainesville sun article) is 1.6 million. Can the business make that deficit up or is that the reason for the new ownership.
Thanks again for creating this blog and look forward to your responses.
-Michael Gray
RE: Michael Gray
ReplyDeleteThanks for your support of the blog and prior support for the club.
You are correct about the Gainesville Sun’s quote on the percentage of home owners that were supporting the club. I think we can do better also. I am sorry that you did not receive any of the marketing that was targeted at the community. I know that things were mailed and we used the mailing list the HOA provided so you should have received things in the past. The last year or so, not a lot of marketing was done other than via email. This may sound like a lame excuse but Walter, who was the General Manager, has been trying to fill the shoes of the Superintendent for more than a year. When the former Superintendent left, the thought was for Walter to manage the grounds and the employees on the golf course for a little while. The time of year the transition took place seemed like a good one for the club to take the opportunity to save a little money on payroll for that position. Believe me when I say no one would love to have those Saturday clinics back more than Walter.
You are not alone with that bad taste in your mouth about the mandatory membership. I don’t know what else to say except I am sorry and I think I am speaking for all the owners when I say this. If we thought for one minute it would have created that amount of ill will we would have never tried that tactic.
As far as the value of the business, there are so many variables in appraising a business. I don’t know all the factors that go into the formula for coming up with a net worth of a business but the $1.6 million the Sun mentioned was the current taxable value of the property according to the property appraiser. The $1.6 includes only the 152 acres that is the golf course and does not include the 2 residential lots that are assessed at $35K each. Back in the “good ole days” we actually had a builder ready to sign a contract for $250K for both lots. That was right at the time the housing market started crashing and he decided to wait a while before purchasing them. Needless to say we still own them and though they are not listed with a realtor, they are certainly for sale. The property appraiser’s assessed value reflects the property and improvements such as buildings, cart paths, pool, bathrooms on the course, and things such as that. The property appraiser does not value the income or net profit/loss derived from the actual operations of the business. So I really don’t know what this business is or was worth. The reason we are hoping to sell for $2.4 is because that happens to be the balance of the 2 mortgages and we feel it is at least worth that much. The total debt of the business is a much larger number than that but all of the owners including Wallace have given up on trying to recoup their investments. If the course sells for $2.4 one of the owners will be walking away from over 1 million dollars.
Thanks to you and everyone else that is participating in this blog.
Walter let me know how I can help your efforts best AW
ReplyDeleteDoes the approved construction of 73 units go with 2.4 million asking price ?
ReplyDeleteLmirby
RE: Lmirby
ReplyDeleteIf what you are referring to is the portion of the property that was rezoned residential, the answer is yes. All property owned by Plantation Oaks GC, Inc. is included in the asking price.
Will the person who identified himself only as Walter please email me at turkeycreekcc@gmail.com. When you post as anonymous I can't reply directly to you. I wanted to clarify one of your questions before I publish your comment.
ReplyDeleteTo whoever wrote that I am not posting ALL entries, I tried to make it very clear that this blog has been setup as a mode of communication. I will answer questions honestly, even if they may sting, to the best of my ability. What I will not publish are comments made only for the purpose of being hateful and I will not publish any comments that the author is not willing to identify themselves in. I am sorry if you don't agree with me but this is what I consider fair and open.
ReplyDeleteThanks for response to my questions. It clarified a lot of the situation for me. I have another question about the 2 mortgages: Is either one of them held by the person in NC (I believe) who originally bought the club? If so, is he willing to participate in any way to help reopen the club. If not, I suppose the mortgages are held by banks and the signatures of at least some of the owners are on the notes. If this is the case, I suppose it's safe to assume the club can't go into bankruptcy and be revalued at a more realistic price.
ReplyDeleteThanks again, Hal Smith
RE: Hal Smith post
ReplyDeleteJay Johnson from NC does not hold either of the mortgages. They are both with Alarion Bank and went to him to payoff the amount he financed at the time Dick May purchased the club in 2000. Yes there are current owner's signature on both of the mortgages.
PLEASE sign your name to your comments. I want to publish them.
ReplyDeleteSo where do we stand, is there any group coming together. For some reason the 100 or so golfers i saw every day on the course seem to be sitting in a corner and not doing anything to save their dying club.
ReplyDeleteIt seems the perception of a good old boys club is true. As long as people are paying for them to lounge around, getting rowdy at karaoke and playing 5 or 6 carts together its okay.
I myself would personally join the club if I saw some fight but my perception seems true that most of the old members only care about themselves and run the club the way they seem fit.
Matt
1. Why is the sale price $2.4 million when I see only a $1.8 million mortgage with Alarion that the golf course is collateral?
ReplyDelete2. What are the utility costs broken down by location?
3. How is the liq. lic. held and what kind is it?
4. What is the main problem with the irrigation system? Any cost estimates to get it running?
5. What is Pete's lease (ie; term,amount,and space)?
6. If Peter's area could be separated out and leased, then couldn't the other areas also be done? A pool lease, a mulligans lease, and even a golf course lease.
7. How long can the course go unattended and still be a golf course (how long would it take to get it playable again)?
8. Can an interested party lead an initial meeting for the purpose of group ownership instead of waiting for something to happen?
Forest Hope
RE: Forest Hope comment I have copied the questions from the post hopefully for easier reading. These are the first 4 questions
ReplyDelete1. Why is the sale price $2.4 million when I see only a $1.8 million mortgage with Alarion that the golf course is collateral?
I have posted the Settlement Statement for the loan for Alarion. The additional money paid by borrower on lines 1601 and the settlement charges on line 1602 came from a personal loan Wallace secured personally with Alarion. Thet instrument for that closing can be found in the official records at the courthouse. The loan amount on line 1501 is the money paid to Heritage Links (Jay Johnson).
2. What are the utility costs broken down by location?
I have not gone back to look at each individual bill to get these averages, but according to what is recorded in the books the following amounts are the average of 2010.
Pool, pool house and parking lot $1100 per month
Building $6400 per month
Misc meters around the course $2249 per month (bathrooms, maintenance building and irrigation)
3. How is the liq. lic. held and what kind is it?
Plantation Oaks owns the liquor license. It is know as a club license. We have two other licenses that are referred to as baby licenses, one for the beverage cart and one for the Tiki Bar. The type of license we have requires that 51% of our Food and Beverage sales come from food.
4. What is the main problem with the irrigation system? Any cost estimates to get it running?
We were receiving reclaimed water from the City of Alachua which has temporarily stopped and our pump is not working so we currently don't have any irrigation. We only have a rough estimate to have the pump looked at to determine the real problem. The amount Walter was told to look at it was between $2500 and $3500 depending on how much work is required to pull it out of the ground. The entire system has problems, even if we had water there are major repairs that need to be done to the system to be able to water effectively. The current system we have is antiquated and needs to be replaced. Repair of the current system would cost amost half the cost of a new system and that does not include actual pump work. A new system is in the neighborhood of $100K and that doesn't include the pump. The company we have talked to about doing the irrigation work is willing to finance it. Their deal right now is 33 months no interest.
RE: Forest Hope questions continued
ReplyDelete5. What is Pete's lease (ie; term,amount,and space)?
Peter is on a month to month lease at the current time. I am not certain of the square footage but it includes the entire top space of the clubhouse excluding the area that is Mulligans. He pays $3294.11 plus tax each month. He also pays 40% of the utilities for the main clubhouse. Electric and sewer only. The amount of utilities included in the monthly averages in the above explanation includes gas for Mulligan's which he does not pay any percentage of. In 2010 his share of the utilities averaged $2300 per month.
6. If Peter's area could be separated out and leased, then couldn't the other areas also be done? A pool lease, a mulligans lease, and even a golf course lease.
We are not certain how it would work exactly or if it can even be done. A consideration at the present time that makes us hesitate to do it is that we do have people out there trying to sell the property. If we go seperating the operations at this time, it would make it even more difficult to sell it as a club.
7. How long can the course go unattended and still be a golf course (how long would it take to get it playable again)?
Walter thinks that if something doesn't happen quickly, we may be just weeks away from loosing the greens. He is able to get a little water to them using a tank but they need a lot more than just water. It is time to fertilize and treat them with pesticides and we just don't have the means to do it. He thinks with perfect conditions (right equipment, enough helping hands, great weather and water etc.) it could be playable (not perfect) in a week or two at the most)
8. Can an interested party lead an initial meeting for the purpose of group ownership instead of waiting for something to happen?
HECK YEAH!!!!!! I was really hoping someone would volunteer to do just that. We are as confused as anyone where to start. I mentioned the "chicken or the egg" in a prior post and we are at the point we don't even know which is the chicken or which is the egg, let alone which one came first.
RE: Matt post
ReplyDeleteI almost didn’t publish this post because I don’t see anything mentioned in it that is constructive but I didn’t want to be accused of not posting everything. He has identified himself (well sort of) and didn’t personally attack anyone so I decided to publish and answer it.
First of all we really don’t know where we stand. There are people talking about organizing a group to try to reopen the club. This is no small feat and people don’t really know where to start. You say good old boys club like it is a bad thing. The atmosphere at the club is one of the unique things about it. There are friends, employees and members that happen to like and respect each other and they enjoy playing golf and having other kinds of fun together. The members here did not run the club, let alone the way they saw fit and I think they would have done almost anything to have it kept open. They are certainly not to blame for the club closing. The problem with the declining income and deteriorating amenities were too much for the current owners to overcome. We tried several times to let the members and the community know that we were in desperate need of their support. Meetings were held to let everyone know we were in financial straits, last spring we hosted a free party to try and encourage new members to join, we tried what some have considered blackmail and extortion to get new members and nothing seemed to convince people that we were so close to closing the doors. Criticism is not going to change things at this point. The current owners can’t go back and change any of the mistakes or bad decisions made. I hope that if a group of new owners is formed or if we can find a buyer that is not currently associated with the club that everyone will give them all the support they possibly can immediately. If people wait to see what will happen, my opinion is that nothing will change. As a community we are going to have to be proactive not reactive.
We hope the golf club will open this year and we would love to see the pool open as we loved to use it at 3 times a week when we were members.
ReplyDeleteWe also like the holiday party's the TIKI bar had, hope that would continue.
We wish you all luck with getting investors, we will join the club if it opens
Jeff and Linda Kotalik
If you sent Walter an email over the weekend and don't see it posted on the blog. Please resend it. He accidentaly deleted some emails that he thought I had already taken care of.
ReplyDeleteI don't live in Turkey Creek. I don't even live in Gainesville. I am a UF alumnus and have always loved Gainesville. My family and I visited a a while back and happened upon Turkey Creek. I thought it had that special 'something' I was looking for for when I retired. I signed up for the Turkey Creek newsletter...it's been sad to see recent developments.
ReplyDeleteI would consider contributing what I could afford to an ownership or management group. I wonder if there are others like myself, who might not be in the Gainesville area, but might consider the Turkey Creek situation to be an "opportunity"? How about a modest marketing effort beyond just Turkey Creek homeowners/members?
I'm looking forward to seeing how the situation progresses.
Steve Davis
Unfortunately that has been the attitude of many of the members and ownership Theenie. You say my words or comments were not correct but Im telling you what many have been thinking so for you to act like its not true then shame on you.
ReplyDeleteI would ask you be more sensitive some of our views and like many I would want to contribute but your bullish attitude has made it hard to really care that much.
Matt
I am in favor of reasonable mandatory homeowner assessment fees to support recreational facilities such as the swimming pool and golf course. Perhaps the Homeowners Association can lease or purchase the pool and make it available to all residents; same with the golf course. The club house requires total renovation and appears unlikely to ever be financially viable without it. Maybe it could be converted into a gym by Gainesville Health & Fitness Center and attract members who live in this part of the county. The fact that multiple attempts over many years to make TC into a successful country club speaks volumes: repeated failure indicates that past approaches should not be repeated. Why beat a dead horse?
ReplyDeleteWe need new ideas, new people in charge, and effective ways of doing things. How are successful recreational communities managing? Why is it that even cheap student apartment complexes manage to have pools and gyms but not TC? There are so many excellent people living out here, why can't we figure out how to maximize the potential that exists and move past failed models? I enjoy living here and want to see everything at its best!
Thank you,
Shivani Wright
Professor Emerita
RE: Matt post
ReplyDeletePlease re-read my post. I think you may have read something into it that was not intended. I did not say that your comments were not correct except for the statement that the members did not run the club. I am referring to members as those people who paid monthly dues for various amenities. One of the complaints that we have heard the most is that the members did not enough "say" in the club operations. I am not sure what context you meant when you wrote about my bullish attitude. Let me assure you my attitude about this situation is anything but bullish according to the definition of the word. I apologize if my comments offended you or anyone else. Please believe that the purpose of this blog is not for me to make anymore enemies than the club already has.
I am going to try and recollect the comments that I sent last week; I have a son in Tampa who works for a large international Commercial and residential real estate development firm. He has been involved in this for years, developing shopping centers, warehousing, manufacturing and apartment buildings. First of all, his company would not be interested because he believes that the property is worth less than the mortgage, which is the greatest "sticking point". However, he suggests that it is very common in his business, to put together investors that would put up the cost of a project by forming an "equity partnership". A group of persons would pool their funds either in equal amounts as equal owners, or different levels of investment, which would give a larger payback after profits are realized. Probably in our situation, equal ownership would be the way to go. It keeps the computing of costs and profits more simple. The idea would be to get enough investors to buy the property outright, with no mortgage. The partnership would then have to fund operating expenses until the property showed enough income to stand alone. At the end of each fiscal year, the net would be evaluated and hopefully at some point start returning a dividend to the investors. I do not have the expertise, but we would need someone to put together a prospectus to hand out to potential investors. This would have to contain past three years operating expenses, all liabilities, and past three year income figures. A realistic selling price should be stated and all the "boiler plate" terminology related to this type of agreement. The partnership could be for example: 200 investors at $10k each, or 100 at $20k or whatever seems like a feasible formula. This will require probably hiring someone to put this prospectus together and circulate it. These are just some of my thoughts, and maybe the way to get the course reopened and at least "break even" if not profitable. Thanks, Vince Butorac
ReplyDeleteYeah!!!!!!Looks like the blog is back up....
ReplyDeleteOK, I am going to have to learn how to blog :o).............. Is it possible that the HOA could make a token investment as a supporter or part owner? I think that would show involvement and encourage all to participate. I do not golf but I agree with you about other options: last summer I got a nanny pass for the pool, we sometimes eat at Mulligan's, and I was considering working out and golf lessons for my grandsons this summer. If periodical info., like this blog, could be distributed to ALL TC homeowners, they might understand options better, and they might also understand the necessity of supporting the club in some way. I am confident that home values will fall if the club is not reopened, but the facilities need to be greatly improved, and a marketing team then needs to work on involvement. With new HOA elections here, I hope there is a concerted effort to elect members that will work with whatever team is put in place to purchase the club. Can basic info. like this blog be posted in the kiosks? Marjorie Ryan
ReplyDeleteAs far as the settlement statement goes... I see what the cost was in 2006 when the loan was issued, but I do not see a current balance. There have been at least 5 years worth of mortgage payments made...correct? In addition, as many homeowners are experiencing right now, their property is not worth the values paid at the height of the real estate bubble. We would need to have a new assessed value on the course. With tighter lending guidelines, no bank is going to approve a loan for more than its value. If a purchase price is not agreed upon before this all begins, aren't we all just spinning our wheels? I think all invovled need to come to the realization that, 1. the course is not worth the asking price as it stands now, 2. the longer this goes one the less valuable it will be, and 3. is bankrupcy (chapter 7 or 13) for the corporation a viable option to remove the burden of debt? I know the B-word is the white elephant in the room, but all options need to be explored.
ReplyDeleteRE: Chris post
ReplyDeleteThe balance of the mortgages are $2,385379.08 as of May 1, 2011. Bankruptcy would not help in this situation there is not alot of outstanding debt other than the mortgages. The bank would simply foreclose on the property and resell it. Are you considering being part of the group that is in the process of organizing in order to try to buy the club? If so, please send me your contact information so that I may pass it on to them. You can email me at turkeycreekcc@gmail.com.
well then lets stop talking and blogging and get together and figure out what to do. im most disp=appointed in those that play golf and used the club regularly. how come only a few are talking and not supporting?
ReplyDeletemark
RE: Mark post
ReplyDeleteI would like to make a suggestion. If you have an opinion, one way or another, try to get as many of your neighbors together as possible and form some small groups that are willing to do some brainstorming. I know it’s hard to figure out where to start I am willing to personally attend any meetings that are scheduled in order to answer questions or hear your suggestions. I really think the key to the club will come in numbers, not number of dollars, number of people. If we can start having fun and enjoying the club, we won't have to make them come, we will make them WANT to come. We don't need the support of 100% of the community just the majority willing to make true commitments. We have already expressed the willingness to be transparent and accountable to the membership. I truly wish I had known what to do when the announcement was first made that the club would be closing. I wish I knew what to do now. All I can do is keep blogging and hope that someone among us can come up with a solution before it’s too late.